How to deal with rape train?
I'm a new player and i can't figure it out, how to deal with 1-3 people constantly coming to our base in juggernaut armor and killing our gens along whith anything else they see. Killing 1 is not much of a problem, although by the time I repair the gens he's usually skiing back to our base. When there's 2 or more, gens pretty much stay down the whole game. They don't even bother to bring an inv station.
I'm already trying to be a bit less of an idiot by not bringing them repair kits but that's not nearly enough.
There are few solutions i've heard/thought of, like
1) having a defence, or teamwork
...ha...ha...
2) being a cloaker with shocklance inside base
effectivness varies with skill of the opposition. After a while they start mortaring every corner, or bringing shield packs, or making the basement an improvized pool filled with plasma. They tend to spin around and stand back to the wall too. They usually live long enough to fire mortar at our gens a few times, which is more than they can take.
3) finding suitable corners and camping with satchel pack
on the positive side, satchel can be placed so that it's not seen untill it's "almost" too late, and survival rate is very low. But it does tend to get destroyed with mortars after few successfull uses.
Most effective way i've found for a noob like me.
4) pretending to be solo LightDefence and killing them on their way to our base
Lights do seem to have advantage over juggernauts in the open... but with my skilllevel it's 50/50 at best. And doesn't work if there is more than 1 rapist.
5) Leaving the gens down and using deployable inv stations and MPB
in my eyes this is very tempting. They can't rape gens for points if they're already down. People don't seem to use CC so sensors being down doesn't bother most people. The only point of turrets seems to be delaying shrieks by few seconds as they shoot them from out of range.
I'm however doubtfull team i'm on would see it this way, and there's always a newbie like me that thinks repairing is a good way to help.
Ideas?
I'm already trying to be a bit less of an idiot by not bringing them repair kits but that's not nearly enough.
There are few solutions i've heard/thought of, like
1) having a defence, or teamwork
...ha...ha...
2) being a cloaker with shocklance inside base
effectivness varies with skill of the opposition. After a while they start mortaring every corner, or bringing shield packs, or making the basement an improvized pool filled with plasma. They tend to spin around and stand back to the wall too. They usually live long enough to fire mortar at our gens a few times, which is more than they can take.
3) finding suitable corners and camping with satchel pack
on the positive side, satchel can be placed so that it's not seen untill it's "almost" too late, and survival rate is very low. But it does tend to get destroyed with mortars after few successfull uses.
Most effective way i've found for a noob like me.
4) pretending to be solo LightDefence and killing them on their way to our base
Lights do seem to have advantage over juggernauts in the open... but with my skilllevel it's 50/50 at best. And doesn't work if there is more than 1 rapist.
5) Leaving the gens down and using deployable inv stations and MPB
in my eyes this is very tempting. They can't rape gens for points if they're already down. People don't seem to use CC so sensors being down doesn't bother most people. The only point of turrets seems to be delaying shrieks by few seconds as they shoot them from out of range.
I'm however doubtfull team i'm on would see it this way, and there's always a newbie like me that thinks repairing is a good way to help.
Ideas?
Comments
This is why as I've said before, the proper protocol for an HO encountering a light in the field is to try and get to your attack point faster, NOT try and fight the light. If you'll notice this is what most of the more seasoned heavy players do.
edit: switch packs quickly by doing ctrl-numpad 0-4
This is an absolutely horrible idea. If you can even get a loadout, it should be either heavy armor so that you can go HO to the enemy base and stop them there, or it should have discs, mines, and possibly hand grenades. Use of those weapons can kill even a shielded heavy in most cases very quickly. Chaingun is also really great, but it takes a while to do them a lot of damage. Mine-disc is the best option by far. Chaingun should be used most of the time if you have no mines. Some players like to use the shocklance outside with an epack to kill them before they enter the base, but most players like this are only fooling themselves if they think they are good enough with lance to use it instead of mine-disc and chaingun. If the HO you are killing are really bad, then shocklance might work really well. But, against good HO, I guarantee you will only get one shot with it before they rape your base and/or kill you. And it most likely won't be a backlance.
This is quite possibly the worst idea ever. If you do this, you are preventing yourself from learning to do anything else.
Lights don't have an advantage over heavies at all. A good shielded heavy could take on 2-3 lights at the same time. It's just that the duel style required is completely different, and most people are accustomed to dueling in light, and can't duel right in heavy.
If your team has inventories deployed/an MPB, then this is definitely a great option. The only problem is, once they go down, you can't get more of them until the base comes back. So while it may work for a while, it most likely won't last very long. Offensive players should definitely ignore the gens and do what they can to get back on offense as fast as possible. Defensive players will probably need to get the base back up sometime soon.
I play heavy offense quite a bit and camp the enemy base with a shield pack. The thing that annoys me most with this are people who come at me with blasters. If they use any other weapon, chances are I will kill them before they even get through my shield. Blaster on the other hand, doesn't have to worry about that. Every blaster shot brings me a little closer to death. So long as you make sure I'm not getting repair kits to regain the lost health, constantly respawning and shooting me with a blaster is guaranteed to kill me eventually - probably faster than any other method available to you if you can't get a loadout. But keep in mind, even after you kill me, if my base is up, I will be back in very short order. So, your team needs to expend some effort in keeping my base down, or else the HO train will simply continue.
Would you say blaster over ELF/(mine disc/plasma/cg)?
you shouldn't be using elf at all, blaster would be a lot better. If you can suit up and get an elf though, you might as well suit up in light shield and try to mine disc/nade them while you're at it. mine disc and nades are generally the best way to clear ho out of a base.
try to toss your health kit before you go into retake the base. it helps the campers more than it helps you.
For the record, i disagree with kryand on a couple of things: about the blaster, i'll only use it if they're low on health, but i typically just spam hand nades and discs. Secondly, i don't think the defense generally should be the ones helping retake the base, and i don't think you really want the offense getting back on offense as soon as possible in many circumstances. the defense, particularly the ld, should not be wasting time trying to retake their base; they should be watching the flag. The HO for your team, when they die, should usually try to help your hd/farmers bring the gen back up. while i understand the feeling of urgency to quickly head out to offense, lest the other team bring even more pressure, usually it's counterproductive, as on many maps, a team of ill-equipped lights (or worse yet, lights in spawn) will get chewed up by laser rifles and turrets. If they are consistently holding the gens for periods of time while your offense is struggling to stay alive on their side of the field, it unfortunately is usually a result of being just outclassed (or terribly uncoordinated with the rest of your team). better ho will simply stay alive a lot longer and will be a lot more consistent and effective at keeping a base down, and likewise, a bad hd will let them in and allow them to camp it far more often
I do put mines, mostly to "detect" cloakers, as farming sensors in explosion rich environment can be time consuming. I'll definitely set the keys for quick pack changing now. I used to think loadouts were enough, but they aren't.
The way I see it, neither team has dedicated defence. Defence relies on high respawn rates, and the fact that most folks find their opponents somewhere between bases. The counter-raping is happening and is dealt with, same as in our base. I'm mostly looking for a way to stop it alone(mostly), before the gens are killed. This way they might consider other means of gaining points, and I won't have to see gens I just repaired go down with the next wave.
In this case shocklance is only considered to be good for the instakill from behind factor. Gens can take about 3 mortar shots. Killing a heavy, that proritizes gens over players, in that span of time with regular weaponry is a bit problematic for me. Granted, I still forget to mine-disc most of the time, but that will come with time and might change the way i see things
Not quite true. Even if map allows effective satchel use, they are easily destroyed(and sometimes avoided) leaving me with mines, grenades and disc, which i usually have to use against scouts and assaults.
not sure here, but the keypoint was "in the open". Lights have better manuveraility and can dodge(or at least try) outdoors, whereas indoors they can't avoid splashdamage
I don't think that clearing a base and getting gens up for a minute that is needed for redeployment is difficult, especially with all the wannabe heavys that can't get loadout. I could be wrong. This is more of a "what if" thing anyway, that unfortunately won't do much even if implemented.
Depending on the map heavys can switch to repair pack, and blaster damage/fire rate make me think that it'd be faster to disc the shield and heavy, even when taking deaths/respawn times into account. Unless it's a place that allows no aim ricochet.
Question: Does plasma bypass shieldpack?
I recall reading it in the manual, but that was base...
It definitely doesn't take 3 mortars to kill a gen. It takes 1 mortar, 1 mine-nade, and 1 additional hand nade all thrown in quick succession. They will probably shoot more than that just in case, but they shouldn't have to. If the heavies you see actually take 3 mortars to kill the gens and ignore you while they do it, then you could try shocklance I guess. But really, the effectiveness of the shocklance was intentionally reduced in classic. You should really work on the other weapons non-stop until you get them down.
Like I said, heavy dueling requires a completely different style - one that doesn't rely on maneuverability.
That depends on the HO, but in many cases I suppose it's not that difficult.
If the heavy switches to repair pack, then by all means disc and nade him. Most of the time though, said heavy won't have time to do that unless your team decides to hold off and not go fight him. His shield pack, on the other hand, regenerates much faster. Combining the damage done by blaster with how slowly he can repair (if at all), and combining the damage done with disc to the power of a shield pack, the blaster usually comes out on top. Now, if you are really good at indoor dueling with discs and nades against a heavy, then that's a different story. But in my experience, the average person trying to retake a base just flies into the room shooting and dies in a few seconds. If their weapon of choice is a disc, they usually don't do anything to me. If they use a blaster, they usually get a couple hits in every time.
No.
On a side note, sometimes when I'm on the rape train, I'll load up an ELF to drain gen shields, it only takes 3 or 4 shots with plasma after that, and they're done. This helps me save ammo for when I'm getting stormed by the D police.
YOU CAN'T STOP THE RAPE TRAIN.
The element of surprise is your greatest asset as a HD, use plasma and spam nades/mines, it's always enough to bring down their "usually small" shield-pack energy reserve.
If they try to withdraw, lob a mortar directly behind them, or at the roof above their head, then forget about them, because they're a goner.
Also having a hidden Dep Invo station is a good idea.
And that, Alviss, is why you have a spot on our comp team. Because you my friend, are awesome.
You can't kill the metal. The metal will live on.
Of course, the coordinated... terrible term here... rapists will send over one load of HO to start the train, and have another one or two waiting in the wings to keep the pressure on instead of unloading all at once.
go HO
Lol, thanks bro. Practice tonight?
Use weapons that don't damage yourself, or at least as much (shocklance, Plasma) plasma/mine owns mine/disc indoors, also plasma has a higher rate of fire. if you have good mines, and decent LD then the HO arent getting through with full HP and full energy (esp if they are spackHO)
like fling says: if there's a step to drop, stop repairing - if your team needs the gens up, they will repair them themselves. It's easier to repair gens with a HD nearby than with HO camping your gens nearby
The best way to deal the continuing raping is same as on the real world, make the counter attack.
Do not stand on the base trying to defend it but attack to their base or between these two points to shoot down their offence and this way you can help others to repair your base and equipment.
But, if we now just limit our discussion to defend position only, the best weapon inside the base and always against the shielded enemy is the blaster and the grenade launcher. These two weapons allows you to shoot behind corners while going backward avoiding the enemy, even that you are a light (best is the assault with shield/repair).
Blaster is best weapon for base defender because it is the only weapon what will pass the shield and cause damage right away. You do not need to shoot many times for juggernaut to get it down. You only need to avoid mortar or grenade rounds.
Forget disk inside, it is no use and you only do splash damage for your teammates while shield reflects it bretty well. And you need to have a direct line to enemy when you easily loose. Mortar is too slow for defense purpose and you easily do more damage to base and teammates than enemy.
Plasma is one great weapon against light and assaults if they do not have a shield. It has medium splas range but few direct hits kills easily.
One great way to deal offencer people is make them to come a defenders. Chase them so they need to go backward on your base and use their ammunition to kill you and not their target.
To make this easier, use mines (remember to press two times H to set beacon as marker mode and not target mode. I always hate that when you are on midfield and you get lock to your base what is behind enemy vehicle because it is full of green target reticles) with beacon what attackers miss easily when you chage them. They need to spend energy for jumping over them or ammunition to shoot them. And while they do that, you can easily kill them with GL, Blaster or Plasma.
For it is easy to go as assault and jammer pack. Just keep it on and every cloaked attacker loose cloak in 20m radius. Easy to pick them then when they loose their main feature over you. After that place motion sensors for positions what does not get splash damage easily from mortar or GL.
One important thing when enemy is raping your base, is not to repair stations partically because they make great damage when they explose. You can use this as advance too. Like on Katabatic, repair the stairway station littlebit and wait that enemy jumps down. Then just shoot plasma on it when enemy is near and it gets reflected greatly for enemy. After that chage with blaster and GL.
To make base rapers one idea off, what is the point collection. Is not to repair devices and stations what they usually destroy. So do not try to fix all of them without power. Just fix one what is closest gen and littlebit, repair gen littlebit and run fast to get assault armor with repairpack/INV (what ever is your plan, first to repair all or place INV somewhere and clear the base/help others to get gear etc) and then continue defence.
One nice idea when the route to gens etc is limited, is to use satchel. You can place it such way that it is not shown to attacker right away but is behind corner and you can not shoot it right away. And then switch it's placement everytime so when they come as assault/juggernaut and they shoot mortart/grenade where it was last, they do not get it destroyed. Bad side is that you usually kill teammates with this tactic but mark it with beacon (as you always need to do with mines).
The mine+disk combo is almost useless inside base. It is not even good to do outdoor on midfield because the amount of mines is limited and stupid players tries to use mine+disk combo and usually miss the mine and the mine is laying somewhere where it has no use. And you loose very important part of defence because of that. And when building a minefield on base, take the ammopack, you get more mines and not just 3 ;-)
You need to learn the keypoints of the base structure where you can chase enemy or where are the bottlenecks so you can get them from there.
Mines need to be marker always with marker beacon mode, so your teammates does not step over them. I have sometimes fielded whole base full of them and I could with my friends move very easily, without problems on base but too many player just ran over them blaming me about killing them when they did not watch where they run or they have turned the beacon sign off (F8 if I remember correctly).
When you have base full of mines, you can easily hear where enemy is coming because they try to avoid them by shooting them or they step on them. Place few turrets with them and you always hear the enemy place and you can start chase.
When taking the offence state, you need to check from where and how the rapers arrive. As example of Katabatic, it is usually the center base where they comes. So attack there and keep it down. It helps a lot! Do not try to be a midfield lancer (shocklance) because they soon turn attack you from midfield and you loose.
One worst way is that enemy use assault armor and takes a shrike to your base. They avoid you if you are on shrike and missiles is good to avoid too. Their purpose is just to get base. So then take the bomber and keep their VPAD down. This usually means that there comes strong defence and your bombing etc purposes comes too difficult to manage if others ain't raping on that time their base.
The hard part is that you need to adapt the defensive action always. First learn what enemy is doing and thing the correct counter attack for that. Like it is always said "best offensive is best defend". And you can not keep using one way to defend your base because enemy is adapting you too. So it is always the finding counter attacks on this game.
And when using grenades. Flash and Concussion grenades are usually best ones. Just remove attacker main weapon/pack and you gain advantage. Make them blind and lance them or use Blaster/Plasma etc. Flash just have problems that you easily blind yourself and enemy have advantage because it just need to destroy/kill people and come again. While you need to survive and repair base too. ;-)
I just say that learn to use blaster. It is not gaining any fame among long time players because they believe it is useless in defense. It is difficult to master but it is just so powerful weapon for clearing base. Thats why it is on your default set when you respawn. It's point is to allow you to easily clear base, shoot around corners and let the blaster to bounce from walls and reflect the fear among rapers. If more people would understand the power of Blaster and use it instead disk, base is cleared so easily.
One of the problems is the "pro scrips" what throws the Blaster away on start because they call it is useless. But same time they just throw away one of most powerful weapon what they have.
If you meant me, then read it again... the "Rape train" can be stopped. But there is not just one way to do it. There is multiple different and the way depends from map, base structure, attackers style and amount of them and of course, your skills.
Tribes 2 started to die because it was too complex for avarage "Joe Shooter". It needs lots of knowledge to understand the endless options to play the game. It has almost unlimited options to defend and attack.
It is like paper-rock-scissors game but not just with three options but with hundred.