As to game winning strategies, let Gen Shwartzkopf tell it succinctly:
"Amateurs think strategy, professionals think logistics."
This, in simple terms relative to the game, means forget killing the enemy untill you have their gens down. Then keep them down to make your enemy easier to kill and his flag to steal.
As to game winning strategies, let Gen Shwartzkopf tell it succinctly:
"Amateurs think strategy, professionals think logistics."
This, in simple terms relative to the game, means forget killing the enemy untill you have their gens down. Then keep them down to make your enemy easier to kill and his flag to steal.
mwuhaha
Pretty similar to my thoughts. The game is so dynamic that coming in with a strategy will rarely work. People are arguing here about lots of strange things like bombers being better than heavies but no one ehre is really making the point that the map and the opposing team is what truly determines what should be played. For instance, A bomber run is amazing for certain maps like Katabatic since there is a lot of terrain divisions that can keep a good pilot concealed. A map like raindance, however, you are *generally* better off with heavies since skiing, clear skies and open terrain make a bomber a dead giveaway to anyone paying attention. Plus heavies can infiltrate and destroy generators.
As for a "strategy" I focus on 3 key objectives:
1. Be goal oriented (most of the time I do anyway ) I want to get on, see what can be done to help my team and try to succeed at it. Sometimes I defend the flag or generators, others I hop into a tank or try to cap the flag. Sometimes I need to reinforce the offense, other times the Defense.
2. PAY ATTENTION TO YOUR BASE. Always know what is going on. When someone grabs your flag, stop what your doing and get after them! The flag capper trumps that stupid heavy skiing down the hill to your base every day of the week. Never assume that "the other guy" will do anything for you. Kill that guy that you see walking into your base. If something is broken, repair it. How many times does the vpad get trashed only for 6 people to stand on it waiting for someone else to repair it- then when someone does the bomber is back and kills it again along with all of the fools that stood there? Always have your head on a swivel. Adapt, overcome.
3. COMMUNICATE! I always spam crap in chat through my voice bind because I want people to know exactly what is happening. If someone takes the flag, spam VFR over and over until your team takes notice. Conversely, Spam VDC if someone on your team grabs the flag. Let people know we have their flag and to drop what they are doing and go protect our runner. If you see a bomber spam VWB, etc. etc.
With these three points, winning is almost a gimme if enough people follow them. If I am out in my tank, I would rather die trying to get the flag runner/defending my flag runner than lose the game but have a high score/kill tally.
As to game winning strategies, let Gen Shwartzkopf tell it succinctly:
"Amateurs think strategy, professionals think logistics."
This, in simple terms relative to the game, means forget killing the enemy untill you have their gens down. Then keep them down to make your enemy easier to kill and his flag to steal.
mwuhaha
Pretty similar to my thoughts. The game is so dynamic that coming in with a strategy will rarely work. People are arguing here about lots of strange things like bombers being better than heavies but no one ehre is really making the point that the map and the opposing team is what truly determines what should be played. For instance, A bomber run is amazing for certain maps like Katabatic since there is a lot of terrain divisions that can keep a good pilot concealed. A map like raindance, however, you are *generally* better off with heavies since skiing, clear skies and open terrain make a bomber a dead giveaway to anyone paying attention. Plus heavies can infiltrate and destroy generators.
As for a "strategy" I focus on 3 key objectives:
1. Be goal oriented (most of the time I do anyway ) I want to get on, see what can be done to help my team and try to succeed at it. Sometimes I defend the flag or generators, others I hop into a tank or try to cap the flag. Sometimes I need to reinforce the offense, other times the Defense.
2. PAY ATTENTION TO YOUR BASE. Always know what is going on. When someone grabs your flag, stop what your doing and get after them! The flag capper trumps that stupid heavy skiing down the hill to your base every day of the week. Never assume that "the other guy" will do anything for you. Kill that guy that you see walking into your base. If something is broken, repair it. How many times does the vpad get trashed only for 6 people to stand on it waiting for someone else to repair it- then when someone does the bomber is back and kills it again along with all of the fools that stood there? Always have your head on a swivel. Adapt, overcome.
3. COMMUNICATE! I always spam crap in chat through my voice bind because I want people to know exactly what is happening. If someone takes the flag, spam VFR over and over until your team takes notice. Conversely, Spam VDC if someone on your team grabs the flag. Let people know we have their flag and to drop what they are doing and go protect our runner. If you see a bomber spam VWB, etc. etc.
With these three points, winning is almost a gimme if enough people follow them. If I am out in my tank, I would rather die trying to get the flag runner/defending my flag runner than lose the game but have a high score/kill tally.
Great tips man! You couldn't be more right about the individual score/kill tally. The individual score is not a way to gauge your improvements. It's quite possible that the more critical players can have a lower score, for instance the flag defender and generator defenders. There positions are crucial in a game, rarely rack up individual points, but get tons of cred from the other players. Just remember, if you're a better farmer than capper or rapist, there is no shame in being one.
One more quick strategy: Don't be afraid to use your tank for defense as well. It's got WAY more armor than a heavy, just make sure you know when to get out, and don't let the enemy run off with it if your gunning, and no one is driving.
Yes classic vehicles are so well balanced that beyond an easy way for the capper to get into position they were all but phased out. What about the tank? That was phased out. The havoc? In base that was actually useful. The bomber? Again in base it was useful. You said it yourself pretty much all teams had just 1 good shriker in the air and thats it. To top it off that shriker was reduced to a very simple ram key people and scout around role. Sure sure you could still shoot at assets, but it wasn't the same.
As for your comment about shrikes being overpowered in base I would have to disagree. A few pilots and myself worked with the devs to ensure balance in the gameplay of the shrike. I don't know if you recall when a shrike had straight firing shots that went on forever....Now THAT was overpowered. I'm happy with the balance that was eventually reached in base, but you seem to miss the concept that the best counter for a shrike was another shrike. It led to a battle for the air as well as the ground.
Base was a step forward in my eyes...It required a good deal more teamplay, coordination, and each run you made mattered. Classic was just gear up, run, die, and repeat in an endless zerg style. Dying didn't mean nearly as much because if you could ski at all the entire map could be crossed in seconds.
Can I see where the people who wanted classic were coming from? Sure they wanted a faster game that reminded them more of tribes 1. Theres always going to be folks who would rather have a new version of the same old stuff and hey if thats their cup of tea all the power to them. That won't change the fact that base was a very solid game despite your bias. Heck we get you didn't like base but to make untrue or exaggerated statements is unneeded.
Shrikers like ZProtoss and doubtful were worth about five defenders when they were in a shrike, and proved that the shrike is still overpowered, even in Classic. Personally I think there should be no vehicles in Classic CTF. Every vehicle map I can think of would be 3 times better if there were no vehicles - except for maybe one MPB. Vehicles can go have their fun elsewhere.
It's kind of mind-boggling how anyone can think the shrike wasn't overpowered in base. Even someone like me who just liked shooting blasters and couldn't fly for shit was able to be an effective shriker and shut down a lot of the enemy defense. On any vehicle map, you HAD to be using as many shrikes as possible or you were definitely at a disadvantage. If you like overpowered shrikes so much, that can't be destroyed ever except by another shrike, maybe you should give Version2 a shot. Rebels has shrikes that are literally indestructible and kill heavies with blasters in about a fourth of a second.
Let me reveal exactly what Base was. Base was Dynamix's attempt to make Tribes 1, but without skiing. If you imagine what Tribes 1 would have been like with no skiing, and then you look at Base, you should be visualizing the exact same gameplay. Sure, they thew in a mechanic that they called "skiing", but it was totally stupid and barely did anything. And just to be safe, they slowed the physics down beyond comprehension to keep people from getting any ideas. Base is great in some areas. I would much rather duel and play Arena in Base than Classic. But when it comes to CTF, Classic is the perfect gameplay design, and your simplistic analysis of it implies that you aren't really in a position to be analyzing it at all. Proj's analysis of Base is absolutely spot on, and almost makes it sound interesting. Base is 90% team coordination, 10% knowing what the best strategy is on a map, and 0% anything else. That is not a good gameplay design. Classic requires just the right amount of teamplay, coordination, individual talent/skill, ability to react to enemy strategies on the fly, and more. A game of Classic can be completely turned upside-down in a matter of seconds through people adapting or someone making a mistake. In Base, you can't get anywhere near that level of intensity. Like Projectile said, it's the same boring thing over and over.
It's true that a good shriker can dominate a game. I can't count how many times I have seen someone grab our flag, and our shrike follows him till he's dead and our flag is recovered. Conversely, I can think of many times I had their flag and a shrike nails me just as I'm about to my flag, he started after me from way off in some far corner of the map where he was deuling another shrike or something. A little overmatched, but nice when the good shriker is on your side huh. Removing all the fighting vehicles can force more teamwork into a game, but at least leave the mpb and transport.
Shrikers like ZProtoss and doubtful were worth about five defenders when they were in a shrike, and proved that the shrike is still overpowered, even in Classic. Personally I think there should be no vehicles in Classic CTF. Every vehicle map I can think of would be 3 times better if there were no vehicles - except for maybe one MPB. Vehicles can go have their fun elsewhere.
It's kind of mind-boggling how anyone can think the shrike wasn't overpowered in base. Even someone like me who just liked shooting blasters and couldn't fly for shit was able to be an effective shriker and shut down a lot of the enemy defense. On any vehicle map, you HAD to be using as many shrikes as possible or you were definitely at a disadvantage. If you like overpowered shrikes so much, that can't be destroyed ever except by another shrike, maybe you should give Version2 a shot. Rebels has shrikes that are literally indestructible and kill heavies with blasters in about a fourth of a second.
Let me reveal exactly what Base was. Base was Dynamix's attempt to make Tribes 1, but without skiing. If you imagine what Tribes 1 would have been like with no skiing, and then you look at Base, you should be visualizing the exact same gameplay. Sure, they thew in a mechanic that they called "skiing", but it was totally stupid and barely did anything. And just to be safe, they slowed the physics down beyond comprehension to keep people from getting any ideas. Base is great in some areas. I would much rather duel and play Arena in Base than Classic. But when it comes to CTF, Classic is the perfect gameplay design, and your simplistic analysis of it implies that you aren't really in a position to be analyzing it at all. Proj's analysis of Base is absolutely spot on, and almost makes it sound interesting. Base is 90% team coordination, 10% knowing what the best strategy is on a map, and 0% anything else. That is not a good gameplay design. Classic requires just the right amount of teamplay, coordination, individual talent/skill, ability to react to enemy strategies on the fly, and more. A game of Classic can be completely turned upside-down in a matter of seconds through people adapting or someone making a mistake. In Base, you can't get anywhere near that level of intensity. Like Projectile said, it's the same boring thing over and over.
So you would deny that classic has a zerg element to it that base did not? You would deny that classic is merely bringing tribes 1 gameplay to tribes 2(heck that was the sell of the dang thing). Those are the views I mentioned in my conversation and they are dead on. Sorry I didn't go into depth but it was a conversation revolving around opinions so I stated mine and gave the reasoning behind those opinions. I didn't care too much for the zerg element or the same old gameplay of tribes 1. I actually wanted a fresher take on things....for me that was base.
Was base the dev's attempts to get what they wanted from tribes 1? Without a doubt. You can clearly see they had vehicles in the game(tribes 1) that they intended to be used...ie the transport. With the development of ski'ing they became a joke. Though in Tribes 2 Base vehicles had a true role in the game. Did they have to slow down gameplay on foot to achieve that? Certainly, but as I said I thought it brought out more teamwork and coordination which I enjoyed.
An interesting discussion is forming about shrikes here though. I point out classic only 1 shriker is in the air. You counter by saying in base you want all the shrikers you can get. Yet you can't see why I would prefer base play? Base came down to 2 battles one for the ground and one for the air. Classic killed the air game and turned the shrike into a simple ramming machine. Did I say they were ineffective in that role? No, I said pretty much every team had to run 1. Its the fact they were reduced to that role when they were capable of so much more that saddens me.
As for the overpowered shrike comments. I'm not even going to bite on that bait man. If you want to think they were overpowered all the power to ya. This conversation has enough topics without pulling that into the mix....Especially with me in the conversation.
I get it though not everyone likes the vehicle aspect of tribes 2 or the speed, coordination, or whatever of base...As I said in my previous post I'm not trying to knock what other people find fun. I'm just not going to let people try and knock what I and many others found fun.
Anyhow don't ya'll think we've gone off topic enough here? Wasn't this thread about strategy not about who likes what gametype or vehicles more and why? lol.
Shrikers like ZProtoss and doubtful were worth about five defenders when they were in a shrike, and proved that the shrike is still overpowered, even in Classic. Personally I think there should be no vehicles in Classic CTF. Every vehicle map I can think of would be 3 times better if there were no vehicles - except for maybe one MPB. Vehicles can go have their fun elsewhere.
It's kind of mind-boggling how anyone can think the shrike wasn't overpowered in base. Even someone like me who just liked shooting blasters and couldn't fly for shit was able to be an effective shriker and shut down a lot of the enemy defense. On any vehicle map, you HAD to be using as many shrikes as possible or you were definitely at a disadvantage. If you like overpowered shrikes so much, that can't be destroyed ever except by another shrike, maybe you should give Version2 a shot. Rebels has shrikes that are literally indestructible and kill heavies with blasters in about a fourth of a second.
Let me reveal exactly what Base was. Base was Dynamix's attempt to make Tribes 1, but without skiing. If you imagine what Tribes 1 would have been like with no skiing, and then you look at Base, you should be visualizing the exact same gameplay. Sure, they thew in a mechanic that they called "skiing", but it was totally stupid and barely did anything. And just to be safe, they slowed the physics down beyond comprehension to keep people from getting any ideas. Base is great in some areas. I would much rather duel and play Arena in Base than Classic. But when it comes to CTF, Classic is the perfect gameplay design, and your simplistic analysis of it implies that you aren't really in a position to be analyzing it at all. Proj's analysis of Base is absolutely spot on, and almost makes it sound interesting. Base is 90% team coordination, 10% knowing what the best strategy is on a map, and 0% anything else. That is not a good gameplay design. Classic requires just the right amount of teamplay, coordination, individual talent/skill, ability to react to enemy strategies on the fly, and more. A game of Classic can be completely turned upside-down in a matter of seconds through people adapting or someone making a mistake. In Base, you can't get anywhere near that level of intensity. Like Projectile said, it's the same boring thing over and over.
So you would deny that classic has a zerg element to it that base did not? You would deny that classic is merely bringing tribes 1 gameplay to tribes 2(heck that was the sell of the dang thing). Those are the views I mentioned in my conversation and they are dead on. Sorry I didn't go into depth but it was a conversation revolving around opinions so I stated mine and gave the reasoning behind those opinions. I didn't care too much for the zerg element or the same old gameplay of tribes 1. I actually wanted a fresher take on things....for me that was base.
Was base the dev's attempts to get what they wanted from tribes 1? Without a doubt. You can clearly see they had vehicles in the game(tribes 1) that they intended to be used...ie the transport. With the development of ski'ing they became a joke. Though in Tribes 2 Base vehicles had a true role in the game. Did they have to slow down gameplay on foot to achieve that? Certainly, but as I said I thought it brought out more teamwork and coordination which I enjoyed.
An interesting discussion is forming about shrikes here though. I point out classic only 1 shriker is in the air. You counter by saying in base you want all the shrikers you can get. Yet you can't see why I would prefer base play? Base came down to 2 battles one for the ground and one for the air. Classic killed the air game and turned the shrike into a simple ramming machine. Did I say they were ineffective in that role? No, I said pretty much every team had to run 1. Its the fact they were reduced to that role when they were capable of so much more that saddens me.
As for the overpowered shrike comments. I'm not enough going to bite on that bait man. If you want to think they were overpowered all the power to ya. This conversation has enough topics without pulling that into the mix....Especially with me in the conversation.
I get it though not everyone likes the vehicle aspect of tribes 2 or the speed, coordination, or whatever of base...As I said in my previous post I'm not trying to knock what other people find fun. I'm just not going to let people try and knock what I and many others found fun.
Anyhow don't ya'll think we've gone off topic enough here? Wasn't this thread about strategy not about who likes what gametype or vehicles more and why? lol.
Exactly Wildcard, everyone has an opinion about which version of Tribes2 they like the best. That is a fact. What we're after in this topic though is more subjective. What are the strategies that veteran players like yourself have come to live by? I have given some of mine, I see a couple non-takers in there saying that Tribes2 is so dynamic that if you enter a game with a strategy in mind, you're doomed. This might be true in the pubs, but say that to a die-hard tournament player and he/she will tell you otherwise. Give us something to think about. What are the best strategies of Tribes2?
There aren't really "best" strategies. The truth is that it's not just "omg this strategy will win us this map based on matchups and positions etc" or "strategies are useless, you need to be completely dynamic and adapting." It's a little bit of column A, a little bit of column B. The first thing you need to realize is that most strategies are entirely map dependent. I've used this analogy before, but way to think of tribes is to think of it like american football. The correlations are all very relevant. imagine how strategies in football would change if each week, the teams would play in a new stadium with all sorts of obstacles, like cliffs or rivers or whathaveyou. That's similar to how much strategies change due to maps. maps dictate strategy more than anything else. A map like confusco is played radically differently than a map like jagged claw.
However, it doesn't take too much to realize that several maps share several qualities: they might have similar approaches to the flag, a similar (or identical even) base layout, similar distances between bases, etc. Thus, most strategies will work across certain maps (but not others). In t2, there are 2 very broad generalizations of maps. They generally are either cluster maps, or timing maps (those are the words I use, there is no real nomenclature for timing maps (although "cluster maps" is a pretty commonly used term)). Cluster maps are generally less about strategy and more about execution. They are generally characterized by short distances between bases, no vpad, and an easily grabbable flag. Examples would be dangerous crossing, deadly birds song, stonehenge, and confusco.
Confusco is probably the most bare bones, simple map in the game. It is almost entirely execution. In a 14 man match, you'd typically stack 8 offense and 6 defense, as you would with most cluster maps. Everyone would be in light, and ideally everyone would be using a disc/laser/chain loadout. the offensive stack could even be considered pointless since the flagstands are virtually interchangeable and equidistant from each base. A 7-7 offense/defense split would work fine. The offensive stack is more an artifact of everyone being used to stacking offense. In 7 man, you'd probably have 4 guys on offense and 3 on defense.
Timing maps would be the more complex, "slower," maps, generally having larger distances between bases, a more difficult to grab flag, and vpads. Because it's not as easy to llama grab flags on the fly and most of your time is spent in transit between bases, using a cluster style offense obviously doesn't work as well. These make up typical maps used during the base era and in the default tribes 2 maps that came with the game. The strategies on these maps can be relatively simple, simply using HO to spam a flagstand and then have cappers time grabs, or they can be complicated, such as katabatic (which, while a terribly overplayed pub map, is incredibly deep strategically) or how 311 used to run slapdash.
While I'm not terribly positive on the exact setup that 311 used (since I had left them by the time they were running this strat), it involved the use of long distance tank spam from several hundred meters out on the opponents' vpad. The tanks were escorted by a heavy (so essentially a 3 man team that would shut down the vpad all game), who would defend them from shrikes etc. With the vpad down and controlled, they would run bombers and offense to the flagstand to disrupt for their cappers. The defense (i'm guessing here on how slapdash is usually played) would probably consist of an HD (who would probably later move to offense after they controlled the other vpad), a few ld, farmer, and mpb near the flag. Probably no more than 6 D in a 14 man match. I believe 311 was undefeated using this strategy, even against much more talented teams like rapture.
The best winning strategy is to fill in where your team needs it, or attack where the enemy has a weakness.
Youve got 4 roles
Base/Gen Attack
Base/Gen Defence
Flag Capping
Flag Defence
I usually find one of them (or more) is being completely ignored on my team and try to fill that in. The team that carries all 4 of these better than the other one will win. Often you will find a team of 20 and not one of them is serious guarding the flag. Or a team of 15 and no one is capping. Kinda silly.
that's really what you get when you pub. competition is an entirely different matter.
as an aside, in real competition, offense is much more important than defense (much like in american football), and you can have an entirely mediocre team in almost every way, but have an excellent and deep group of HO, and still do very well. If you're talking about pubs, generally going HO is the most effective way to spend your time if you're not sure what you should do, as the principle still stands. HO is also one of the easier positions to learn, so it's a win-win
It makes sense to only give advice applicable to pub games, seeing as theres no real competition left in Tribes. Pick ups arent even real competition, as there's no tribe and no practice, and little in the way of cooperation on teams. Just better balanced pubbing with more skilled players. Besides, why would anyone try to play "serious bsns" competition style in a game thats 8 years old and only has 5 % of the playerbase it once did? Seems silly to get worked up over that. T2 is good to relax in and enjoy your time, but I wouldnt take competing in it seriously, theres barely anyone left to compete with. Thanks to TN at least we have some.
The best winning strategy is to fill in where your team needs it, or attack where the enemy has a weakness.
Youve got 4 roles
Base/Gen Attack
Base/Gen Defence
Flag Capping
Flag Defence
I usually find one of them (or more) is being completely ignored on my team and try to fill that in. The team that carries all 4 of these better than the other one will win. Often you will find a team of 20 and not one of them is serious guarding the flag. Or a team of 15 and no one is capping. Kinda silly.
that's really what you get when you pub. competition is an entirely different matter.
as an aside, in real competition, offense is much more important than defense (much like in american football), and you can have an entirely mediocre team in almost every way, but have an excellent and deep group of HO, and still do very well. If you're talking about pubs, generally going HO is the most effective way to spend your time if you're not sure what you should do, as the principle still stands. HO is also one of the easier positions to learn, so it's a win-win
It makes sense to only give advice applicable to pub games, seeing as theres no real competition left in Tribes. Pick ups arent even real competition, as there's no tribe and no practice, and little in the way of cooperation on teams. Just better balanced pubbing with more skilled players. Besides, why would anyone try to play "serious bsns" competition style in a game thats 8 years old and only has 5 % of the playerbase it once did? Seems silly to get worked up over that. T2 is good to relax in and enjoy your time, but I wouldnt take competing in it seriously, theres barely anyone left to compete with. Thanks to TN at least we have some.
Well, I guess that's your opinion. Tribes2 may be 8 years old but there are plenty who are ready for some competition games again. Stay positive, 5% of the original players is still enough players for MANY tribes.
Help me out here with the difference between base and classic. Base is how the game came originally, correct? And classic was someones attempt to change it by making my shrike slower so I couldn't outrun missiles and putting a chaingun on the Wildcat.
[quote author=TheOracle[xXx] link=topic=153.msg1870#msg1870 date=1231787538]
Help me out here with the difference between base and classic. Base is how the game came originally, correct? And classic was someones attempt to change it by making my shrike slower so I couldn't outrun missiles and putting a chaingun on the Wildcat.
If that's what classic is, then I hate it.
[/quote]
Its a bit more complicated than that....Though yes base was first. Classic came after the dev team was fired.
Anyway back on topic. Heres a tip that pubbers seem to be missing. If your vpad/inv's are down don't stand around waiting. Its extremely likely that the person who brought said items down is in the base...or even another attacker. EVERY player should be capable of fighting "naked". Toss your blaster if you want...pick up a pack from a dead body and get moving. No packs laying around? Kill an attacker. Sitting around just turns the game into a x vs however many people aren't sitting around. It gets extremely tiring feeling like you are in a 15 vs 1-3 whenever assets go down.
Classic is likely the closest approximation to Tribes1 physics so far, to include vehicle dynamics. I played base++ a bit today, and noticed no real diff between base and ++. What should I be looking for?
[quote author=TheOracle[xXx] link=topic=153.msg1870#msg1870 date=1231787538]
Help me out here with the difference between base and classic. Base is how the game came originally, correct? And classic was someones attempt to change it by making my shrike slower so I couldn't outrun missiles and putting a chaingun on the Wildcat.
If that's what classic is, then I hate it.
[/quote]
Have you played Classic at all? It doesn't sound like it. Anyone who is paying attention should notice huge differences in the physics within 60 seconds of joining a game. Base is about slow gameplay and trying to coordinate all of your efforts with the rest of your team just to accomplish one simple task. Classic is about speed, intensity, and mastery of Tribes. Teamwork is still important, but it's not necessarily more important than actual skill. The two are balanced.
In short, Tribes 1 was intended to be an extremely slow game, but because of the skiing bug it turned into an incredibly fast (and actually good) game. With Tribes 2, the devs tried to make an extremely slow game again while still keeping some key elements of Tribes 1 gameplay. While some people thought this was "new" and "fresh", most old fans hated it and refused to play Tribes 2. After a couple years of playing both Tribes 1 and Tribes 2, it became blatantly obvious which game was better, so Classic was created to make Tribes 2 more like Tribes 1.
Load up with assault armor,
plasma
nades
elf
rockets
standard grenades
shield pack, or satchel charge
four rockets will take down the MPB's shields, plasma and grenades circling the MPB(some prefer to hover over it) will destroy it. If you want a faster solution, the satchel charge should finish it off after the shields are down.
Get in a shrike and shoot the MPB. Right before you blow up, jump out, activate your shield pack, and circle the MPB tossing mines, grenades, and shoot plasma. This ensures the MPBs destruction (usually).
Load up with assault armor,
plasma
nades
elf
rockets
standard grenades
shield pack, or satchel charge
four rockets will take down the MPB's shields, plasma and grenades circling the MPB(some prefer to hover over it) will destroy it. If you want a faster solution, the satchel charge should finish it off after the shields are down.
Load up with assault armor,
plasma
nades
elf
rockets
standard grenades
shield pack, or satchel charge
four rockets will take down the MPB's shields, plasma and grenades circling the MPB(some prefer to hover over it) will destroy it. If you want a faster solution, the satchel charge should finish it off after the shields are down.
never use satchel, ever
I've seen some folks effectively use satchel as a defense measure. Probably would fail in competitive play though.
Load up with assault armor,
plasma
nades
elf
rockets
standard grenades
shield pack, or satchel charge
four rockets will take down the MPB's shields, plasma and grenades circling the MPB(some prefer to hover over it) will destroy it. If you want a faster solution, the satchel charge should finish it off after the shields are down.
never use satchel, ever
I've seen some folks effectively use satchel as a defense measure. Probably would fail in competitive play though.
yeah, that's what i meant. i've never (and i've seen a LOT of competition) ever seen satchel charge seriously used in comp. the poster above had the right idea, usually a shriker in medium, or even a lone heavy can take out an mpb properly with just their ordinary weapons
I occasionally use satchel if I get near enemy defenses, otherwise I use it as a sort of human bomber, skiing so I can get altitude over the enemy, tossing the pack, waiting for it to activate, and, knowing there aren't any friendlies in the area, cause some explosions.
But otherwise, satchel doesn't have much use in more intense gameplay. I've seen people plant the pack on the flag and then waiting for a capper, but that becomes a Bad Thing when someone else starts defending the flag. For open flag maps where cappers will come flying in, assuming there aren't other defenders, it could be somewhat useful if you get the timing right.
My personal strategy in a pub is giving my best in mid field . Geting the heavys cripeld before they get to my base. Killing enemy capers, assisting my own. Destroying clamps and killing enemys with my laser.
I think that we won't see any good strategies (that actually work in a game) before some tribes have been founded. You need to know exactly what the others are doing and what you have to do ... you have to prepare for the game before the game. You need to know from where your cappers will atack and what rout will they take to flee; when will the heavys stop spamming mortars on the enemy flag so that you can time your cap... stuff like that.
All you can do in a pub is give your best on your position, try work with your teammates as much as possible and maybe come up with some simple moves on the fly. Or you team up with a friend and realy learn some ways to cap ... chase ...or something like that... together, but you can't realy get the whole team to work like a machinery without wasting (at least) half of the game to explain things (jelling at the jerks who sabotage or simply disagree with your orders will also consume a lot of time).
Yet... if you realy want to come up with something or learn something , then there are some realy good videos of the old tribes fighting each other ( like this one here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDLtXeUWWWE ) from wich you might learn something useful
Also: Discussing tribe strategies in a publick threat wouldnt be a smart thing to do
I tend to agree with the common sentiment that you go into a pub open minded and fill a need for your team. It takes about 60 seconds to figure out where the hole in the O or D is. Be flexible and good with multiple armors / loadouts. I set up my saved loadout list in order - 3 lights, 3 mediums, 3 heavies with offensive (energy / shield) and defensive (shield / rep) and various weapon combos I like and am comfortable with. I can't remember more than 9 so I can hit Ent / Num Pad / Ent quickly without screwing up ::)
One thing I would focus more energy on is farming. Farmers can have a huge impact on the game if done correctly. Get several invs out immediately and know in advance where to put turrets so you can get maximum coverage. Many people just scatter them without knowing the best pattern to use and they leave turrets unused or defensive blind spots. After you have all the turrets out keep making the rounds and tending them. Experienced offensive players will cripple turrets but leave them in place so you can't deploy more. Just shoot the cripples with a spinner and toss another one in its place. If your base is under heavy attack you will run your ass off keeping your turrets and invs up - its a full time job so just ignore the incoming and keep farming. If you know what you are doing you will be killing more than most on your team and you won't be firing a shot. One bummer is that you don't get point credit for turret kills at the end of the match and that sux, but you will see a popup saying your turret killed playerX.
One thing that pisses me off is when I'm farming and farming and am smoking cappers and rapers and some jagoff goes and puts a mortar turret up right next to my farm. 5 seconds later and my dozen beautiful turrets and two invs are gone. Please...
Make sure you are tossing cameras around so put them in place of standard nades. Once your farm is fully deployed throw some motions in for good measure.
I usually can't farm for more than about 15 minutes because it's just too much running and turning and it is very tedious work. It's nice to have several good farmers on a team so you can take turns.
Comments
"Amateurs think strategy, professionals think logistics."
This, in simple terms relative to the game, means forget killing the enemy untill you have their gens down. Then keep them down to make your enemy easier to kill and his flag to steal.
mwuhaha
Pretty similar to my thoughts. The game is so dynamic that coming in with a strategy will rarely work. People are arguing here about lots of strange things like bombers being better than heavies but no one ehre is really making the point that the map and the opposing team is what truly determines what should be played. For instance, A bomber run is amazing for certain maps like Katabatic since there is a lot of terrain divisions that can keep a good pilot concealed. A map like raindance, however, you are *generally* better off with heavies since skiing, clear skies and open terrain make a bomber a dead giveaway to anyone paying attention. Plus heavies can infiltrate and destroy generators.
As for a "strategy" I focus on 3 key objectives:
1. Be goal oriented (most of the time I do anyway
2. PAY ATTENTION TO YOUR BASE. Always know what is going on. When someone grabs your flag, stop what your doing and get after them! The flag capper trumps that stupid heavy skiing down the hill to your base every day of the week. Never assume that "the other guy" will do anything for you. Kill that guy that you see walking into your base. If something is broken, repair it. How many times does the vpad get trashed only for 6 people to stand on it waiting for someone else to repair it- then when someone does the bomber is back and kills it again along with all of the fools that stood there? Always have your head on a swivel. Adapt, overcome.
3. COMMUNICATE! I always spam crap in chat through my voice bind because I want people to know exactly what is happening. If someone takes the flag, spam VFR over and over until your team takes notice. Conversely, Spam VDC if someone on your team grabs the flag. Let people know we have their flag and to drop what they are doing and go protect our runner. If you see a bomber spam VWB, etc. etc.
With these three points, winning is almost a gimme if enough people follow them. If I am out in my tank, I would rather die trying to get the flag runner/defending my flag runner than lose the game but have a high score/kill tally.
Great tips man! You couldn't be more right about the individual score/kill tally. The individual score is not a way to gauge your improvements. It's quite possible that the more critical players can have a lower score, for instance the flag defender and generator defenders. There positions are crucial in a game, rarely rack up individual points, but get tons of cred from the other players. Just remember, if you're a better farmer than capper or rapist, there is no shame in being one.
It's kind of mind-boggling how anyone can think the shrike wasn't overpowered in base. Even someone like me who just liked shooting blasters and couldn't fly for shit was able to be an effective shriker and shut down a lot of the enemy defense. On any vehicle map, you HAD to be using as many shrikes as possible or you were definitely at a disadvantage. If you like overpowered shrikes so much, that can't be destroyed ever except by another shrike, maybe you should give Version2 a shot. Rebels has shrikes that are literally indestructible and kill heavies with blasters in about a fourth of a second.
Let me reveal exactly what Base was. Base was Dynamix's attempt to make Tribes 1, but without skiing. If you imagine what Tribes 1 would have been like with no skiing, and then you look at Base, you should be visualizing the exact same gameplay. Sure, they thew in a mechanic that they called "skiing", but it was totally stupid and barely did anything. And just to be safe, they slowed the physics down beyond comprehension to keep people from getting any ideas. Base is great in some areas. I would much rather duel and play Arena in Base than Classic. But when it comes to CTF, Classic is the perfect gameplay design, and your simplistic analysis of it implies that you aren't really in a position to be analyzing it at all. Proj's analysis of Base is absolutely spot on, and almost makes it sound interesting. Base is 90% team coordination, 10% knowing what the best strategy is on a map, and 0% anything else. That is not a good gameplay design. Classic requires just the right amount of teamplay, coordination, individual talent/skill, ability to react to enemy strategies on the fly, and more. A game of Classic can be completely turned upside-down in a matter of seconds through people adapting or someone making a mistake. In Base, you can't get anywhere near that level of intensity. Like Projectile said, it's the same boring thing over and over.
So you would deny that classic has a zerg element to it that base did not? You would deny that classic is merely bringing tribes 1 gameplay to tribes 2(heck that was the sell of the dang thing). Those are the views I mentioned in my conversation and they are dead on. Sorry I didn't go into depth but it was a conversation revolving around opinions so I stated mine and gave the reasoning behind those opinions. I didn't care too much for the zerg element or the same old gameplay of tribes 1. I actually wanted a fresher take on things....for me that was base.
Was base the dev's attempts to get what they wanted from tribes 1? Without a doubt. You can clearly see they had vehicles in the game(tribes 1) that they intended to be used...ie the transport. With the development of ski'ing they became a joke. Though in Tribes 2 Base vehicles had a true role in the game. Did they have to slow down gameplay on foot to achieve that? Certainly, but as I said I thought it brought out more teamwork and coordination which I enjoyed.
An interesting discussion is forming about shrikes here though. I point out classic only 1 shriker is in the air. You counter by saying in base you want all the shrikers you can get. Yet you can't see why I would prefer base play? Base came down to 2 battles one for the ground and one for the air. Classic killed the air game and turned the shrike into a simple ramming machine. Did I say they were ineffective in that role? No, I said pretty much every team had to run 1. Its the fact they were reduced to that role when they were capable of so much more that saddens me.
As for the overpowered shrike comments. I'm not even going to bite on that bait man. If you want to think they were overpowered all the power to ya. This conversation has enough topics without pulling that into the mix....Especially with me in the conversation.
I get it though not everyone likes the vehicle aspect of tribes 2 or the speed, coordination, or whatever of base...As I said in my previous post I'm not trying to knock what other people find fun. I'm just not going to let people try and knock what I and many others found fun.
Anyhow don't ya'll think we've gone off topic enough here? Wasn't this thread about strategy not about who likes what gametype or vehicles more and why? lol.
Exactly Wildcard, everyone has an opinion about which version of Tribes2 they like the best. That is a fact. What we're after in this topic though is more subjective. What are the strategies that veteran players like yourself have come to live by? I have given some of mine, I see a couple non-takers in there saying that Tribes2 is so dynamic that if you enter a game with a strategy in mind, you're doomed. This might be true in the pubs, but say that to a die-hard tournament player and he/she will tell you otherwise. Give us something to think about. What are the best strategies of Tribes2?
However, it doesn't take too much to realize that several maps share several qualities: they might have similar approaches to the flag, a similar (or identical even) base layout, similar distances between bases, etc. Thus, most strategies will work across certain maps (but not others). In t2, there are 2 very broad generalizations of maps. They generally are either cluster maps, or timing maps (those are the words I use, there is no real nomenclature for timing maps (although "cluster maps" is a pretty commonly used term)). Cluster maps are generally less about strategy and more about execution. They are generally characterized by short distances between bases, no vpad, and an easily grabbable flag. Examples would be dangerous crossing, deadly birds song, stonehenge, and confusco.
Confusco is probably the most bare bones, simple map in the game. It is almost entirely execution. In a 14 man match, you'd typically stack 8 offense and 6 defense, as you would with most cluster maps. Everyone would be in light, and ideally everyone would be using a disc/laser/chain loadout. the offensive stack could even be considered pointless since the flagstands are virtually interchangeable and equidistant from each base. A 7-7 offense/defense split would work fine. The offensive stack is more an artifact of everyone being used to stacking offense. In 7 man, you'd probably have 4 guys on offense and 3 on defense.
Timing maps would be the more complex, "slower," maps, generally having larger distances between bases, a more difficult to grab flag, and vpads. Because it's not as easy to llama grab flags on the fly and most of your time is spent in transit between bases, using a cluster style offense obviously doesn't work as well. These make up typical maps used during the base era and in the default tribes 2 maps that came with the game. The strategies on these maps can be relatively simple, simply using HO to spam a flagstand and then have cappers time grabs, or they can be complicated, such as katabatic (which, while a terribly overplayed pub map, is incredibly deep strategically) or how 311 used to run slapdash.
While I'm not terribly positive on the exact setup that 311 used (since I had left them by the time they were running this strat), it involved the use of long distance tank spam from several hundred meters out on the opponents' vpad. The tanks were escorted by a heavy (so essentially a 3 man team that would shut down the vpad all game), who would defend them from shrikes etc. With the vpad down and controlled, they would run bombers and offense to the flagstand to disrupt for their cappers. The defense (i'm guessing here on how slapdash is usually played) would probably consist of an HD (who would probably later move to offense after they controlled the other vpad), a few ld, farmer, and mpb near the flag. Probably no more than 6 D in a 14 man match. I believe 311 was undefeated using this strategy, even against much more talented teams like rapture.
It makes sense to only give advice applicable to pub games, seeing as theres no real competition left in Tribes. Pick ups arent even real competition, as there's no tribe and no practice, and little in the way of cooperation on teams. Just better balanced pubbing with more skilled players. Besides, why would anyone try to play "serious bsns" competition style in a game thats 8 years old and only has 5 % of the playerbase it once did? Seems silly to get worked up over that. T2 is good to relax in and enjoy your time, but I wouldnt take competing in it seriously, theres barely anyone left to compete with. Thanks to TN at least we have some.
Well, I guess that's your opinion. Tribes2 may be 8 years old but there are plenty who are ready for some competition games again. Stay positive, 5% of the original players is still enough players for MANY tribes.
If that's what classic is, then I hate it.
Help me out here with the difference between base and classic. Base is how the game came originally, correct? And classic was someones attempt to change it by making my shrike slower so I couldn't outrun missiles and putting a chaingun on the Wildcat.
If that's what classic is, then I hate it.
[/quote]
Its a bit more complicated than that....Though yes base was first. Classic came after the dev team was fired.
Anyway back on topic. Heres a tip that pubbers seem to be missing. If your vpad/inv's are down don't stand around waiting. Its extremely likely that the person who brought said items down is in the base...or even another attacker. EVERY player should be capable of fighting "naked". Toss your blaster if you want...pick up a pack from a dead body and get moving. No packs laying around? Kill an attacker. Sitting around just turns the game into a x vs however many people aren't sitting around. It gets extremely tiring feeling like you are in a 15 vs 1-3 whenever assets go down.
Help me out here with the difference between base and classic. Base is how the game came originally, correct? And classic was someones attempt to change it by making my shrike slower so I couldn't outrun missiles and putting a chaingun on the Wildcat.
If that's what classic is, then I hate it.
[/quote]
Have you played Classic at all? It doesn't sound like it. Anyone who is paying attention should notice huge differences in the physics within 60 seconds of joining a game. Base is about slow gameplay and trying to coordinate all of your efforts with the rest of your team just to accomplish one simple task. Classic is about speed, intensity, and mastery of Tribes. Teamwork is still important, but it's not necessarily more important than actual skill. The two are balanced.
In short, Tribes 1 was intended to be an extremely slow game, but because of the skiing bug it turned into an incredibly fast (and actually good) game. With Tribes 2, the devs tried to make an extremely slow game again while still keeping some key elements of Tribes 1 gameplay. While some people thought this was "new" and "fresh", most old fans hated it and refused to play Tribes 2. After a couple years of playing both Tribes 1 and Tribes 2, it became blatantly obvious which game was better, so Classic was created to make Tribes 2 more like Tribes 1.
Load up with assault armor,
plasma
nades
elf
rockets
standard grenades
shield pack, or satchel charge
four rockets will take down the MPB's shields, plasma and grenades circling the MPB(some prefer to hover over it) will destroy it. If you want a faster solution, the satchel charge should finish it off after the shields are down.
Get in a shrike and shoot the MPB. Right before you blow up, jump out, activate your shield pack, and circle the MPB tossing mines, grenades, and shoot plasma. This ensures the MPBs destruction (usually).
I've seen some folks effectively use satchel as a defense measure. Probably would fail in competitive play though.
But otherwise, satchel doesn't have much use in more intense gameplay. I've seen people plant the pack on the flag and then waiting for a capper, but that becomes a Bad Thing when someone else starts defending the flag. For open flag maps where cappers will come flying in, assuming there aren't other defenders, it could be somewhat useful if you get the timing right.
You're right eolk, I tried 4 missiles to take out shields and then laid a satchel right on top of the mpb, nothing. Didn't take it out.
I think that we won't see any good strategies (that actually work in a game) before some tribes have been founded. You need to know exactly what the others are doing and what you have to do ... you have to prepare for the game before the game. You need to know from where your cappers will atack and what rout will they take to flee; when will the heavys stop spamming mortars on the enemy flag so that you can time your cap... stuff like that.
All you can do in a pub is give your best on your position, try work with your teammates as much as possible and maybe come up with some simple moves on the fly. Or you team up with a friend and realy learn some ways to cap ... chase ...or something like that... together, but you can't realy get the whole team to work like a machinery without wasting (at least) half of the game to explain things (jelling at the jerks who sabotage or simply disagree with your orders will also consume a lot of time).
Yet... if you realy want to come up with something or learn something , then there are some realy good videos of the old tribes fighting each other ( like this one here
Also: Discussing tribe strategies in a publick threat wouldnt be a smart thing to do
not nice blakhart. : ) Alt-f4 is the key combination to close a program in windows.
A for effort though bro, nice try : )
One thing I would focus more energy on is farming. Farmers can have a huge impact on the game if done correctly. Get several invs out immediately and know in advance where to put turrets so you can get maximum coverage. Many people just scatter them without knowing the best pattern to use and they leave turrets unused or defensive blind spots. After you have all the turrets out keep making the rounds and tending them. Experienced offensive players will cripple turrets but leave them in place so you can't deploy more. Just shoot the cripples with a spinner and toss another one in its place. If your base is under heavy attack you will run your ass off keeping your turrets and invs up - its a full time job so just ignore the incoming and keep farming. If you know what you are doing you will be killing more than most on your team and you won't be firing a shot. One bummer is that you don't get point credit for turret kills at the end of the match and that sux, but you will see a popup saying your turret killed playerX.
One thing that pisses me off is when I'm farming and farming and am smoking cappers and rapers and some jagoff goes and puts a mortar turret up right next to my farm. 5 seconds later and my dozen beautiful turrets and two invs are gone. Please...
Make sure you are tossing cameras around so put them in place of standard nades. Once your farm is fully deployed throw some motions in for good measure.
I usually can't farm for more than about 15 minutes because it's just too much running and turning and it is very tedious work. It's nice to have several good farmers on a team so you can take turns.
My two