I think scripts and modifications are cheats.
Ok now before people start getting upset, no I do not think that everyone who is better then me is using a cheat, and since playing tribes again I haven't seen something so blatant I initiated a player kick vote. But when I get mid air mine disked several times in one game it does make me wonder. Now I do not actually know much about scripts so if anyone could post some info on some of the more commonly used ones I'd appreciate it. But here is my main point. I think that any script of modification that gives a player an unfair advantage over others is an outright cheat. Also I consider things like modified mortar crosshairs to be a cheat. Now listen carefully, I AM NOT ACCUSING SKILLED PLAYERS OF CHEATING! But I would find it hard to believe that no one on tribes is using these kinds of script or modifications. I would even go as far to say that a simple jump/jet or mine/disk bind script is a cheat. I'll use a dumb analogy. If a NASCAR racer put a nitro tank on his car it would be considered cheating. Why? Because NASCAR is supposed determine the winner by which team has the better driver and pit crew that works together. Not by who has a better car to drive. Same with tribes. The best players should be determined by who actually possesses the most skill, not by who has the better modifications. Oh I do use one script. The one that reminds me to start recording. Does not give me an in game advantage against anyone.
Comments
I think those are some pretty sad examples. When a script is modifying a person's gameplay in a way that allows them to do something humanly impossible (mine on death), I think it's fair to call it a cheat. When it's a script that binds two keys to a single button press, you may as well call anyone using a keyboard and mouse setup that's different from the default a cheat.
The jump/jet script is pretty sad, but if they want to do it, it's a far cry from cheating. The missile warning script that makes your crosshair flash red gives you a quick lock indicator, but it also provides a way for people who have a hearing disability to detect a locked missile. The autoflare script is borderline, but the downside to it is that it will always use a flare, regardless if it's necessary or not. Mortar reticules are another poor example, since a player could just use a dry erase marker to mark off angles on their screen. I've done this, and it works wonders.
As for an "unfair advantage", should I turn off my 3d surround sound since it allows me to locate a cloaker much easier than someone with simple stereo? Should everyone reduce their framerate to a constant 20 FPS so that no one has a framerate advantage? Should everyone use the same keyboard and mouse so that no one has more convenient button placement?
When playing a game on a computer, you have to realize that other players will have an unfair advantage over you. Be it because of hardware, better connectivity, better manual dexterity, or the fact that they'll use a script that you don't want to use... They're going to be capable of doing things that you will be incapable of for various reasons. Suck it up. This is how evolution works. Either adapt, or fail.
Sev... you have the same concerns as anyone in ANY game where the stock UI isn't quite up-to-snuff and allows script modifications. Think of World of Warcraft... people made scripts that basically clicked things for you or had conditionals that would fire off events based on things that happened to you. Blizzard started blocking code that allowed scripts like that.
Tribes 2 suffers from similar UI/lack-of-options problems... but Dynamix/Sierra/Whoever isn't around to "police" what is and isn't cheating/exploitative code. So while I completely understand your concern, there's not much that can be done. Just find scripts that enhance the GAME for you (not that many really enhance your ABILITIES). I'd consider an auto-flare script cheating... but I can't do anything to keep someone else from using it.
I often use missiles, and even with their auto flare scripts, I sometimes kill the player with the missile launcher.
I've never heard of any script that helps players mine disc (short of the max mine throw script which is built into Classic and other MODs).
Lots of people play with scripts, in fact, the developers of the game built it to work so that players could use scripts. If the developers knowingly build a cheat interface for everyone, is it still cheating?
That analogy works better for requiring everyone to have the same hardware and ping.
Scripting out mine-discing could cause a problem, because throwing the mine, then shooting it, should take into account your momentum, how far the target is, etc, and automatically mining and discing creates the risk of the disc outpacing the mine, and either killing you or negating its effectiveness.
Fling makes a good point. Scripts won't get you to MAing every player that crosses your path. Adding an assload of information to your HUD just makes you better informed about the field, but doesn't make you better. Experience does. And if you short-change experience by running scripts that think for you, how good are you ever going to be?
[Disclaimer] I make no claim of any expertise or good skill whatsoever. If you encounter me in-game, you are far more likely to successfully kill me than I will you.
Joking aside, the only things I'd view as cheats would be anything that aims for you (i.e. HappyMod2) or otherwise accesses those parts of the game that were explicitly locked (read: not script accessible).
Do some of the scripts become annoying, yes...
But, any monkey can perform the same thing as the auto-flare or jump & jet scripts.
Now, when are we getting a post complaining about those annoying voice spammers? :P
It gives an advantage, even if it is only an advantage for the people that NEED them.
Hear hear.
Sweeping generalizations about scripts won't help people take your argument seriously, especially since TribesNext falls into the script/modification category.
mystic_1
I've seen both sides of the script equation. I haven't booted up T2 in a bit, but I believe I was script free. When I originally played, I started sans scripts, and moved to them as I moved towards actual team play, where such things were expected.
The same goes for the example someone else used, World of Warcraft, arenas specifically. It came to a point where to level the playing field in some match-ups, you had to adopt the techniques everyone else was using at the time. Information is power, scripts provide streamlined information.
With both pairs of shoes having been worn on my feet, I'd say that if you're in for public games, don't even sweat it. If you're in for competition, abide by the rules of the governing body, and adapt what the community does, or invent your own.
I just wish T2 would work with my 8 button mouse, I'm seriously out of practice of being a multi-key presser.
[edit later with better information, this was just off the top of my head]
- jump & jet
- flag timer, grab notify, auto help call on flag grab
- Dio Shield hud
- Hal deployer
- Hudmover
- speedhud
- Mortar & Grenade range reticles
- Auto 3rd person depending on which vehicle you buy
- Pilotmode
- PJ's commander (to spot incoming shrikes/bombers when piloting myself etc)
- max mine/nade throw
- and various other ones that don't really impact the game at all like, superstats and whatever
Unfortunately, I've yet to find a script that would magically increase my skill level from "slightly above suck" to "tolerable".
When I played Halo PC I had different buttons for different fire rates, so that I could fire the plas pistol and plasma rifle without it overheating by controlling its fire rate.
If the next Tribes isn't scriptable, modable, it will go the way of Tribes Vengeance.
If it doesn't have some form of anticheat that works, people will play untill they get sick of the cheats, and then move on to something else, or go back to wow or doody4 where they came from.